Access Question

[Kayaksticks]

Does anyone know the laws on access to water. Specifically where a main road bridge cross's a creek or river? I have a creek up my way I would love to float/fish and there is a 2.3 mile section between two bridges each on main roads. What is the legality of floating those types of creeks and accessing them from main road bridges?

[wvfisherman]

In Wva yes, Va no. Your laws are a lot different than ours over here.

[uncross]

It use to be if the water was deemed navigable you could float it in Virginia. Now with the law suits over kings grants and all it just depends on the body of water. The people who got sued fishing the Jackson River, were using a map on dgif's website that showed access points and stated the areas were legal to fish that they were fishing. Still they were sued and they ran out of money fighting it, with no back up from the state in court, and the land owner won.

If its a good sized flow its probably going to be navigable water and would probably be ok. If it smaller, I would be careful. I would check with your game warden either way.

[ken]

There is a KML overlay you can download from the DGIF site for google earth that shows all streams that are considered navigable. That being said, there are no stated parameters as to what is navigable or not.

Most folks including whitewater guidebook authors do not know how measure rivers. The best way to do this is to measure the drainage size and multiply that by the average rate of flow/sq. mile. The latter(average cfs) takes some effort to determine. This value obviously is an average cfs value but is the best way imo to describe the size of any river or creek numerically Thankfully in Va most rivers produce about 1.3 cfs/sq. mile. Some exceptions are the upper Tye which receives more rainfall and the Doah basin which is very dry. Most doah flows are around .9 cfs/sq. mile. Streams in NC, GA, SC have highly variable outputs ranging from .9 cfs/sq. mile up to 4 cfs/sq. mile.

pubs.usgs.gov/of/2006/1308/pdf/OFR2006-1308.pdf. This is list of rivers and drainage sizes. I will floatfish most anything over 200 sq. miles. I have even pulled my kayak up streams as small as 40 sq. miles while wading and then floated back down to the bridge. My best advice is this. Simply avoid areas that are abused by locals or have pissy locals and you should be fine. Also wear state employee camo and be inconspicuous. I've had landowners walk within ten feet of me and did not know I was wading waist deep just a few feet away.

[Kayaksticks]

Thanks all for the replies. This is more of a creek. In fact its even called a creek. It flows from Bedford county all the way down to it dumps in to Kerr Resevior. So it goes for miles and miles. As for the flow, Looking at some arial photo's, looks like some area's I would have to get out and push. But looks like some sweet spots along the way. I was hoping to be able to put in at one major road bridge and float to the next major road bridge with is 2.3 miles. Looks like that one is off the list.

[ken]

Why off the list? Knock on a few doors and you may have a legit access. I've been fishing small rivers since 1985 in NC and more recently in Va. Not once have I've been met with hostility. There have been a couple times where I chose poorly but all ended well. I believe I know which river you speak of, I've have had no real inclination to fish it but have been curious to know what inhabits it's waters.

Suggestion. Do not run shuttle. Tether your kayak on your belt and wade/paddle upstream. If you encounter an area that appears sketchy your will not be committed to cross. This method of kayak fishing imo is much more productive as it is more efficient and you can take your time fishing great spots without getting blown downstream. I've pulled my kayak upstream up to three miles in swift water and rapids. You may want to wait until next year after hunting season ends to do some extreme exploring.

Most recent encounters with landowners

This past winter I was on a trout river in Ashe Cnty that was loosely designated as a trout stream. I encountered a piece of property that was heavily peppered with no trespassing signs. The landowners were walking along the river so I stopped my progress and hoped they would pay me a visit and they did. I asked them permission to cross and it was given. I explained to them that the reason why I was towing a kayak is so I would not step on their property and I released all fish. They seemed to be impressed by my efforts to not be an a-hole. I asked them why their land was posted. Their response was shocking. Hunters had been shooting turkeys in their back yard from the road and had the brass to walk through their yard to retrieve them!

A few years ago I was on the E prong Roaring fishing for trout far away from the NCWRC signs. I had been working an eddie for a few minutes and when I turned around, the landowner was sitting no more than ten feet behind me. I nearly shat upon myself. After regaining my composure, he inquired about my success or the lack thereof and wished me well. I thanked him for collaborating with the NCWRC. I might have gotten into some trouble if the landowner insisted on making trouble as I was far away from any signs(1.5 miles) and because this county has very strict trespassing laws. I spoke to the local game warden about this situation and he could not tell me with any certainty which side of the law I was on.

The aforementioned incident demonstrated the vagueness of the laws. In Va one should pay more attention to local attitudes regarding anglers more so than the law itself. That fella on the Jackson River acted in a way that was perceived as defiance in a known sensitive area. Never ever argue with a landowner!!! Always smile, be agreeable, and if one is met with hostility, be contrite and apologetic. Explain the efforts made to be respectful even if you knew you were pushing your luck. Heck, keep a jar of Honey or Molasses in the car and offer it to the landowner on your way out...that may result in a conversation on the front porch and written permission.

I've only had an unfortunate encounter once and I was not fishing. I was unloading kayaks on the NF Tye at the end of a bus. entrance at the blacktop. The land behind the gate was posted. I was outside. It was the only safe place to unload even though there as National Forest land on the other side of the rd. I was on the R.O.W but I was very unlucky as the business owners pulled up just as I was about to pull the kayaks across the Rd. This guy was livid and I was cussed out three ways from Sunday and was threatened with physical abuse. I managed to calm him down by promising I would tell my buddies not to get anywhere near his property and by apologizing profusely. He eventually told me where I could launch my boat legally as I was very unfamiliar with the area. He explained to me that other kayakers and trout fisherman had parked in his driveway and blocked him out. This was a huge problem being that he operated a logging business with large equipment. I was not blocking the driveway as the fella I was kayaking with was biking the shuttle and the vehicle was gone. I was quite you then but should have known these folks had been pissed off in the past due to the nature of the signage.

[tinymwoods]

My brother and I were putting a kayak in at a bridge near Abingdon, Va. Our plan was to float down to some private farm land that we have permission to fish on. As we pulled in, a big diesel truck pulled in behind us. It was a local off duty (not that they are truly ever off duty) conservation officer. He called us by name as he knows us well (in good ways through our volunteer work with local clubs teaching fishing to small kids) and asked what we were up to. He said they recently had some problems in the area with shake and bake meth labs and he was watching the area heavy. We told him our plan and he said the right a way at this bridge was 2 foot wide. It was impossible to take the kayaks down the area that was a state right a way. We didn't have to cross any fence lines as a private tractor road goes beside the bridge. He told us to go ask the land owner and he went with us. We had asked the guy to fish his land years ago with no success, but with the help of the officer, he granted permission to put our kayaks in beside the bridge. We slayed the fish that day and ended up a great day. I asked the conservation officer what he would have done if he didn't know us. He said "Depends on the attitude. Ask them to leave or write them up". I guess very long story short, Virginia laws don't exactly grant access to water at bridges.

[mainstream1]

Hey I fish the the north and middle forks around abingdon/Meadowview. Where are you talking about?