I have a ?

[samrorrer]

I'm not a facebook user, but was able to see this on your facebook page:

"Whitethorn Saturday! 10 am"

I'm curious why anyone would want the whole world to be at one spot to fish? I need help here.

Sam

[uncross]

The answer is some of like to go out and fish together. One of the guys on here posted an open invitation on here and another site for this past saturday. I added it to the facebook post because there are a couple of local guys on there that are not on here. and not sure if they are on the other site. It tells me how many people see my posts on facebook. 40 people saw the post. That is about average for the post on the page.

Like I have stated before, one of the biggest reasons I started this site was finding local people to fish with and float partners ect... Others had expressed the same, so I opened the site up. I still fish alone some, but also enjoying fishing with others, and others on here seem to feel the same I think, It seems there are at least a few people on here fishing together every week or so.

[samrorrer]

Thanks, that's exactly the answer I figured I'd receive. It is great for a bunch of guys to spend a day hanging out wherever. Please, no one take offense to what follows, it's more observations and pleas combined.

Fishing is great. Fishing alone is great. Fishing with buds is great. It's all great. Wanna know whats not great? Mark Taylor of the Roanoke Times tells about a state record muskie that was caught and publishes a map, complete with everything but GPS coordinates. He ruined an area for almost 4 years because not thinking things through.

I have been a "self proclaimed" steward of the New a long time. The media is quite possibly the worst thing that has ever happened to it. Now, it is but a shell of its former self. I have seen more and more detrimental situations occurring lately. There are at least a dozen local guides out there with big fish plastered all over their websites, Another dozen coming in from Boone NC, Bristol TN, Stone Mountain NC, Princeton WV, etc, etc.

I saw the info on facebook and, as I said, am not a member. So lets saw another non member googled or binged Whitethorn and saw multiple posts and pics with nice fish. That sure cuts out the footwork someone like me had to do to learn that river. The info is there for the taking. And areas can be depleted, especially during winter months.

I just thought I'd throw this out, because WE have a very special gift in the form of the New River. Let's PLEASE try to keep it that way, OK?

[anglerxxx]

Here we go....

Sam, I'm trying to be respectful, but I've seen this attitude over and over in many other sports and activities. I saw this in snowboarding, desert racing, mountaineering and bouldering. I know the message you're trying to put out here has some merit, but I think your approach is a little condescending, confrontational, and hypocritical.

Times are changing, always. This is the age of social media. You are not going to change that fact just because you feel like your spot has been exploited. I seriously doubt that Jeff's facebook page is going to cause a flood of new people to converge upon your sacred honey hole. Besides, you really can't expect me, or anyone else, to believe that Whitethorne(of all places), is a secret???

Weren't you a guide for a number of years? Isn't it a bit hypocritical to call out a facebook post for spreading the word(about the very place that you already exploited?)? Dude...you got paid to spread the word.
I call bullshit. I think that our little group will have a hard time ever exposing half as many people as you already did when you were a guide.

[samrorrer]

FWIW, I'm not being condescending, confrontational, or hypocritical. The very reason I quit guiding was because I couldn't be anything but a hypocrite. The New means more to me than the almighty dollar.

And I guided the entire river, not just a few spots. and Whitethorn was never one of them. Ever.

All I can do is try to inform.

Are you still interested in spending a day in my boat? You are always welcome.

[wvfisherman]

I dont understand how a facebook post is going to to hurt a fishing spot, while your very own vadnr website has all the putins and takeouts for the whole new river system in va. Plus it gives you what routes to and from these and gps cords.

[uncross]

Here is my 2 cents, or rant or whatever you would like to call it.

I am not offended, I agree and disagree.

I have seen specific holes or areas distroyed or overfished to the point that I quit going back. One of my favorite musky spots of all time, was like this. I fished there often, and kept pictures to myself (I have them posted now), but not then. There were a few others that fished this small area, and others caught muskies on accident small mouth fishing. Word got out and couples years later, there were people fishing this hole every day, and I don't go back anymore.

But this was a very small specific area on a large river. I have talked to the biologist up there and they say that there are still plenty of muskies. So that spot has I guessed been ruined but not the fishery.

I also fish with a member of my family that when he takes you some where you don't tell anyone where, and I don't. He doesn't take pictures of any fish, because he is worried that someone will see the pictures and recognize the location. I have never told anyone the places he has taken me and I don't tell him that I have fished most these areas with someone else either.

Which gets me to the next point of most people's secrect spots, are not as secret as most think they are.

Whitethorn:

I understand that this is a special place to you. I'm sure you have specific locations, you have studied and scouted, put a lot of time into, and I understand you keeping those specific locations to your self. I understand that and I would never try to get someone to give those type of specific locations up if they did not want to.

I do not feel that the Whitethorn area is a secret by anymeans. I've heard for over a decade that this is the place to fish for a specific type of fish. It is a public boat landing that is usually packed, and several of the times I have fished up there, I had to park across the railroad tracks. A quick peak at VDGIF site, newspaper articles and other boards, and it seems to tell the same.

I have only been fishing that area a couple of years, so I do not know how it was in the past.

I try to be careful when giving a trip report. If I fish the New, espicially for small mouth, I will tell the section of the river I fished and what I caught and what they were hitting. I will even post pics, sometimes videos. I don't post exact locations, or gps coordinates. I think it is pretty well known that the New is a good small mouth fishery. Years ago it was ranked one of the top ones in the country in some national publication.

I am a little more cautious on what musky info I post and give out to others. nor have I posted if, when or where I have spotted the beast when out targeting them or other fish.

Before I made this site member only or whater you want to call it, one of the guys on here did a post about a float a bunch of went on from eggleston to pembroke. Some "guest" commented "Why don't you just give gps coordinates, so everyone will fish there?" I deleted the comment, and what makes it funny is that everyone was on the river that day. There were at least 100-150 people on that stretch, that day.

But Sam I do understand that this is your home water, and want to keep it special.

I would love to fish with you. I;m sure I would learn something new, location, patterns, ect. Would not try to get you to give up your honey holes.

I try to learn something everytime I go out. If you are fishing with me and catch a fish or some tells me they are catching fish, I will ask you what they are hitting. Not because I am lazy or a copycat, and you don't have to tell me, but I always try to figure them out.

well enough of a rant from me... just my opinion......

[samrorrer]

Jeff, thanks for the civility. I know this subject can be VERY flammable and that is not my intent.

The target is not Whitethorn (but it is Whitethorn), but the entire river. Yeah, there are publications out there that are gospel, but they don't delve into the specifics. I can take you to winter holes that on any given occasion, smallies can be caught and in numbers. I'm just concerned that someone with the ability to use open source research can accumulate too much info and deplete these areas. I can take you to two areas this spring that I guess 75% of the smallies below Claytor use as spawning areas. And show you unscrupulous guides bed fishing, instead of letting them peacefully reproduce.

I gotta snicker at what you said about landmarks, pictures and muskies. I'm that way about smallies. The muskies are displacing smallies through loss of habitat. I've told Joe Williams(VDGIF muskie biologist) more than once these friggin muskies are more of a nuisance than redeyes. The Giles battle cry is "Cut their throats and throw 'em on the bank."

[anglerxxx]

Nov 20, 2012 17:01:07 GMT -5 @samrorrer said:

Are you still interested in spending a day in my boat? You are always welcome.

Sam, I'm always interested in spending the day in anyone's boat.

Sorry that I got all riled up, but I still contend that your second post in this thread is indeed, condescending. I feel that your message has a ton of merit, and as I had said to you in an earlier pm, it is an issue that I've been trying to remind myself of.

My point is, I think you could have approached the subject matter with a little more tact. Using Jeff's facebook post as an example just makes it immediately personal. If you step down off your soapbox, we might be able to hear what your saying down here. I don't know you from Adam, and it sounded a little preachy.

On another note, I took the liberty to check out the River Smallies site a little bit, and saw where you made mention of the need for a Riverkeeper. As a self appointed steward, I think you might have found your calling. I was actually surprised to find that there wasn't a Riverkeeper in the area, especially with the Arsenal and Celenese(and a slew of lesser evils) in such close proximity.

Anyway, I'm sure I speak for others when I say that your knowledge and experience of the New is a welcome addition to the forum, and I hope to get a chance to meet you soon. In the mean time, maybe you can lube up your message a little before you just ram it in?

[samrorrer]

Scott, if condescending means wanting to help and instruct, I'll plead guilty. I'm not superior to ANYONE, and I wasn't trying to patronize this group. I guess you & I are pretty close in our ages, as is Phil, but I'm guessing most here are younger, so hopefully I haven't driven them off the site. I haven't found the inflection key on my keyboard that matches my voice. Sorry, the E-media sucks at this.

FWIW, I was going to try to hook up with you, but my son, that I don't get to fish with enough, is getting a shot a a muskie that I spoke of in an earlier post. I guess "guide" can be a relative (no pun intended) term.

Lube 'em? I ain't kissed 'em yet!!!

[anglerxxx]

;D

The day they invent an inflection key is none too soon! I know I'm still trying to come down out of internet battle mode from the election, so my posts might have some leftover aggression in 'em.

Hope your son gets on the bigguns!!

Happy Thanksgiving!

[vtwoody9]

Sam the fact that you are an administrator to this site and condesending others is foul play. You do not own the river or reserve any rights to say who fishes it or how the invitation to fish it comes about. This coming from a guide who hammers the river several days, if not 7, days a week. Before ever reading your post" I have a ?" I knew nothing good would come from it. Also this forum doesn't need an "instructor". What it needs is mediaters and stewards of kayak angling to share, love and continually grow this wonderful sport. Please re think your threads in the future.